[It takes a little while for a response as John tries to get it right. One of the benefits of text is that he can moderate what he's saying much more easily than a regular conversation. It makes... stretching the truth a bit easier. He's a dodgy liar at the best of times.]
It's to do with a patient. This is really more your area than mine, I suppose. But I'm treating them for a few other ailments, as well. I don't think it's anything Norfinbury's doing, so I'm hoping it's something that can be helped.
They've been having issues with anger, I think is the best way to put it. Impulsiveness. Thoughts of violence. I'd like to offer some kind of counsel on how to best deal with those. I don't really want to start handing out sedatives.
[This could be Peter. This could totally be Peter. Or Stephen. Sort of. ... Squalo?]
[Hannibal notes the curious avoidance of gendered language, and wonders if that is significant. If it indicates that the person the doctor is inquiring about is female.]
I see. Sedatives are also a temporary remedy. There is only so much medication available to us, or so I've been led to believe.
It is difficult to assess a patient from a second hand report, as I'm sure you're aware.
No, of course. I understand completely. I don't mean to be difficult. Generally speaking is there anything you'd prescribe? Just some sort of talk-therapy? Figure out whatever the root of the impulses is and sort of figure out how to stamp them out?
[Because these are the sorts of things that need to be controlled.
John has a general academic idea for how this needs to go. God knows Ella had said something like that to him more than once. It's just the making himself do it, as he's discovered in his reticence to talk to even someone like Bucky.]
It's difficult to think of more constructive outlets for those feelings here in Norfinbury. You can't exactly head over to the gym or even necessarily get away from people when you need time to yourself. I'd thought of suggesting journaling, but I don't know if that's going to be enough.
[It's not enough. It helps him a little, but there are few satisfying answers in all this. His blogs back home had felt like a synthesis, a way to get his thoughts in order and lay out the problem with the answer. His summaries here are just... questions. More and more and more questions. It leaves him feeling frustrated that he doesn't have answers to help people.]
You're not being difficult at all. I am happy to help.
Talk therapy is often quite effective in cases of anger difficulties. I wouldn't characterize it as "stamping out," however. We cannot destroy what is in our nature. But we can accept it.
Journaling can be helpful. Meditation as well. But a therapeutic relationship with a trained professional can offer the arena necessary to address dysfunctional thoughts and behavior outside of ones own echo chamber.
[Yeah, that's more or less what he expected and doesn't particularly want to hear. Read. John considers just ending the conversation with an evasive 'I'll tell them to give you a call,' but one last go at it.]
There are some trust issues to go along with the anger, I'm afraid. They've not had the best experiences with therapists in the past and I think it's colored things. Getting them to talk at all is like pulling teeth. As soon as you try to treat it like anything clinical, they tend to get short, evasive. That sort of thing.
Let me be clear. I do not believe that anger is a psychological deficiency. Particularly since in many, even most, cases, it is absolutely valid. I would not be seeking to impose my structure upon it. That is where many therapists fail, and leave patients less whole than when they started. Rather than forging the path, I hold the lamp that allows you to see in the darkness, and the path you choose is and will always be your own.
[He's heard that from Ella before. He's heard it from the new woman, Adrienne, in their very brief, interrupted session.]
It's the acting on them that's more the issue. Yeah, I've heard that before.
[He sends that and realizes it was maybe a little too candid. So, he adds quickly:]
Sorry. I don't mean to be testing you or anything.
[Yes, he absolutely does mean to be doing that, but male therapists generally make him leery. Particularly one who started out lying to him. It's not the best basis foundation for trust to be built upon.]
Thank you for the advice. I'll see where it takes me with my patient. I do appreciate your time, Dr. Lecter.
I know that's what many therapists say. I cannot say I agree. The gospel of self-control is simply ineffective. I am more a proponent of radical freedom. All actions are open to you, and it is always your choice, based on your own values, which path you take.
I am always at your disposal, Dr. Watson. I hope I may be of service to your patient.
[Wait, what? John blinks a few times, staring down at the other man's words. He'd been about to hang up and retreat, but he is, admittedly, intrigued. Also a bit perturbed.]
Sorry. All actions? Isn't that a bit too free rein? What if someone says they want to run off and murder someone?
[He sort of... has. Not that the first time with Hope had been pre-meditated. Why is he even entertaining this? That's not what he'd meant. Then again, John has thought about it with the Joker... tried to do it.]
No. Of course not! There are enough things trying to kill us here without doing it to each other.
[The force of the response causes Hannibal's smile to widen.]
And that is the reason you would not. It is your reason, your choice. Not mine. The choices we make for ourselves are far more powerful and tenacious than any others attempt to impose upon us.
[All right, that's getting a little snide. John tries to dial it back a touch. He's not actually intending to get into some bizarre not-therapy session with this man. But... well, it's just a conversation. People have conversations. Medical colleagues have conversations about... things. Not usually this sort of thing, but other things. Philosophical questions. Dialing it back, though. Yes.]
That was rude. I'm sorry, Dr. Lecter. I don't know what your practice is like or the sorts of patients you used to take on.
[Interesting, what the good doctor considers rude. Very British of him, really.]
No offense taken, Dr. Watson. I did have some patients who were seeing me not quite at their full choice. If such a patient were to say that they intended to kill someone, I would address it by first exploring their values, and then by exploring the consequences. There are few who, with a thorough examination of conscience, would continue on a homicidal trajectory.
[Of course, Hannibal has nurtured those few into magnificent lethal creatures. He would still hold that he merely refined what was already there.]
Of course, if there is a clear and credible threat, I would be legally and ethically obligated to warn the authorities.
Not court-mandated doesn't necessarily mean voluntary. You were brought in by that Jack bloke to help out with Mr. Graham, right? I'm guessing... therapy with you was a condition of Mr. Graham getting to help out? Probably not a bad idea, all things considered.
[John might not be Sherlock, but he's not completely oblivious, either. And time with Sherlock has helped his own reasoning skills, much as he's loathe to admit it whenever Sherlock's being particularly annoying. Even if it wasn't a formal condition, he can see it being a tacit one.]
No need to answer, of course, doctor. Confidentiality.
It sounds like you had a very interesting practice before you turned to art.
If you ever wanted to start up shop again, you couldn't pick a better place for problems. You've met the Joker now, right? What do you make of him? I know a few people who have a bit of an axe to grind where he's concerned. [To say the very least.] If you've got any tips on dealing with psychotic clowns.
[This isn't about his anger issues. No. He's asking generally. That makes it safe. Lots of people have problems with the Joker. He winds up loads of them. Hell, Alfie's talked about killing the man, too. More than one person has.]
I have spoken with him, yes. And witnessed some of his actions.
[Like how John went into the pit. Mind the gap indeed.]
I have had interactions with a number of men not entirely unlike the Joker. My best advice would be to remember that they are unpredictable, yet even the unpredictable have patterns. We may not know when the river will flood, but we know the highest ground.
Yeah. And that's why we're keeping him away from Harley.
He's tried to kill her before. He'll try to kill anyone close to him if he can. She told me it's
[John hits send accidentally while starting to delete that and growls a few curses at the uncooperative tablet.]
Sorry. That's a confidence. But I know what she's going through with him, and I want to help her. Walking away from someone who's like the sun in your life. Even in the shadows, you know he's there. It's the bloody sun casting them.
[This is getting a little metaphorical and maybe edging closer to some of his own issues. John pulls back, redirects.]
I just want to be able to protect people from that man. If there were a way to stop him permanently, that'd be one thing, but there's no guarantees here.
[And every time John's managed to catch hold of him, the Joker's played the good boy in custody until he can escape, making it impossible for John to justify killing the bastard. It's frustrating.]
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2018-02-23 06:02 am (UTC)From:It's to do with a patient. This is really more your area than mine, I suppose. But I'm treating them for a few other ailments, as well. I don't think it's anything Norfinbury's doing, so I'm hoping it's something that can be helped.
They've been having issues with anger, I think is the best way to put it. Impulsiveness. Thoughts of violence. I'd like to offer some kind of counsel on how to best deal with those. I don't really want to start handing out sedatives.
[This could be Peter. This could totally be Peter. Or Stephen. Sort of. ... Squalo?]
no subject
Date: 2018-02-23 11:25 pm (UTC)From:I see. Sedatives are also a temporary remedy. There is only so much medication available to us, or so I've been led to believe.
It is difficult to assess a patient from a second hand report, as I'm sure you're aware.
no subject
Date: 2018-02-23 11:50 pm (UTC)From:[Because these are the sorts of things that need to be controlled.
John has a general academic idea for how this needs to go. God knows Ella had said something like that to him more than once. It's just the making himself do it, as he's discovered in his reticence to talk to even someone like Bucky.]
It's difficult to think of more constructive outlets for those feelings here in Norfinbury. You can't exactly head over to the gym or even necessarily get away from people when you need time to yourself. I'd thought of suggesting journaling, but I don't know if that's going to be enough.
[It's not enough. It helps him a little, but there are few satisfying answers in all this. His blogs back home had felt like a synthesis, a way to get his thoughts in order and lay out the problem with the answer. His summaries here are just... questions. More and more and more questions. It leaves him feeling frustrated that he doesn't have answers to help people.]
no subject
Date: 2018-02-24 01:07 am (UTC)From:Talk therapy is often quite effective in cases of anger difficulties. I wouldn't characterize it as "stamping out," however. We cannot destroy what is in our nature. But we can accept it.
Journaling can be helpful. Meditation as well. But a therapeutic relationship with a trained professional can offer the arena necessary to address dysfunctional thoughts and behavior outside of ones own echo chamber.
no subject
Date: 2018-02-24 01:24 am (UTC)From:There are some trust issues to go along with the anger, I'm afraid. They've not had the best experiences with therapists in the past and I think it's colored things. Getting them to talk at all is like pulling teeth. As soon as you try to treat it like anything clinical, they tend to get short, evasive. That sort of thing.
no subject
Date: 2018-02-24 02:10 am (UTC)From:Let me be clear. I do not believe that anger is a psychological deficiency. Particularly since in many, even most, cases, it is absolutely valid. I would not be seeking to impose my structure upon it. That is where many therapists fail, and leave patients less whole than when they started. Rather than forging the path, I hold the lamp that allows you to see in the darkness, and the path you choose is and will always be your own.
no subject
Date: 2018-02-24 02:21 am (UTC)From:[He's heard that from Ella before. He's heard it from the new woman, Adrienne, in their very brief, interrupted session.]
It's the acting on them that's more the issue. Yeah, I've heard that before.
[He sends that and realizes it was maybe a little too candid. So, he adds quickly:]
Sorry. I don't mean to be testing you or anything.
[Yes, he absolutely does mean to be doing that, but male therapists generally make him leery. Particularly one who started out lying to him. It's not the best basis foundation for trust to be built upon.]
Thank you for the advice. I'll see where it takes me with my patient. I do appreciate your time, Dr. Lecter.
no subject
Date: 2018-02-24 02:33 am (UTC)From:I am always at your disposal, Dr. Watson. I hope I may be of service to your patient.
no subject
Date: 2018-02-24 02:36 am (UTC)From:Sorry. All actions? Isn't that a bit too free rein? What if someone says they want to run off and murder someone?
no subject
Date: 2018-02-24 02:41 am (UTC)From:Would you choose to run off and murder someone, Dr. Watson?
no subject
Date: 2018-02-24 02:45 am (UTC)From:No. Of course not! There are enough things trying to kill us here without doing it to each other.
no subject
Date: 2018-02-24 02:57 am (UTC)From:And that is the reason you would not. It is your reason, your choice. Not mine. The choices we make for ourselves are far more powerful and tenacious than any others attempt to impose upon us.
no subject
Date: 2018-02-24 03:01 am (UTC)From:It's not the only reason.
[Just the one that came first to mind. This is strange. He's not sure if he likes it... but he's not bored, either.]
It's hardly a reason at all. What would you say to someone who can't think of a reason not to do something like that?
no subject
Date: 2018-02-24 03:18 am (UTC)From:If someone has come to me, chances are there is a reason they do not wish to kill, even if they do not understand it yet.
no subject
Date: 2018-02-24 03:23 am (UTC)From:[All right, that's getting a little snide. John tries to dial it back a touch. He's not actually intending to get into some bizarre not-therapy session with this man. But... well, it's just a conversation. People have conversations. Medical colleagues have conversations about... things. Not usually this sort of thing, but other things. Philosophical questions. Dialing it back, though. Yes.]
That was rude. I'm sorry, Dr. Lecter. I don't know what your practice is like or the sorts of patients you used to take on.
[It's a glaring invitation to tell him, though.]
no subject
Date: 2018-02-24 03:35 am (UTC)From:No offense taken, Dr. Watson. I did have some patients who were seeing me not quite at their full choice. If such a patient were to say that they intended to kill someone, I would address it by first exploring their values, and then by exploring the consequences. There are few who, with a thorough examination of conscience, would continue on a homicidal trajectory.
[Of course, Hannibal has nurtured those few into magnificent lethal creatures. He would still hold that he merely refined what was already there.]
Of course, if there is a clear and credible threat, I would be legally and ethically obligated to warn the authorities.
no subject
Date: 2018-02-24 03:38 am (UTC)From:[He doesn't expect to get an answer, but he can't not ask when given that kind of opening.]
no subject
Date: 2018-02-24 03:47 am (UTC)From:Will's therapy was not court ordered. Beyond that, I'm afraid I may not divulge the nature of our sessions.
[As well you know, naughty Dr. Watson.]
no subject
Date: 2018-02-24 03:56 am (UTC)From:[John might not be Sherlock, but he's not completely oblivious, either. And time with Sherlock has helped his own reasoning skills, much as he's loathe to admit it whenever Sherlock's being particularly annoying. Even if it wasn't a formal condition, he can see it being a tacit one.]
No need to answer, of course, doctor. Confidentiality.
It sounds like you had a very interesting practice before you turned to art.
no subject
Date: 2018-02-24 04:06 am (UTC)From:[That would be a yes.]
Oftimes I miss my practice. And regret that circumstances were so that necessitated my leaving it.
no subject
Date: 2018-02-24 04:13 am (UTC)From:[This isn't about his anger issues. No. He's asking generally. That makes it safe. Lots of people have problems with the Joker. He winds up loads of them. Hell, Alfie's talked about killing the man, too. More than one person has.]
no subject
Date: 2018-02-26 03:09 am (UTC)From:[Like how John went into the pit. Mind the gap indeed.]
I have had interactions with a number of men not entirely unlike the Joker. My best advice would be to remember that they are unpredictable, yet even the unpredictable have patterns. We may not know when the river will flood, but we know the highest ground.
no subject
Date: 2018-02-26 03:18 am (UTC)From:He's tried to kill her before. He'll try to kill anyone close to him if he can. She told me it's
[John hits send accidentally while starting to delete that and growls a few curses at the uncooperative tablet.]
Sorry. That's a confidence. But I know what she's going through with him, and I want to help her. Walking away from someone who's like the sun in your life. Even in the shadows, you know he's there. It's the bloody sun casting them.
[This is getting a little metaphorical and maybe edging closer to some of his own issues. John pulls back, redirects.]
I just want to be able to protect people from that man. If there were a way to stop him permanently, that'd be one thing, but there's no guarantees here.
[And every time John's managed to catch hold of him, the Joker's played the good boy in custody until he can escape, making it impossible for John to justify killing the bastard. It's frustrating.]